#38 - IRA Waterfall: Grow Your Roth Tax-Free With This CPA's Method

[00:00:00] The information contained herein is intended to help the viewer successfully navigate common IRS and Department of Labor requirements to help achieve successful results from their IRA. The information is not intended to replace information from your legal counsel or income tax professional. IRA Club does not offer or sell any investment. All investments have risk. This is the Investor's Row Podcast powered by the IRA Club. Alternative investing reimagined. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just getting started,

[00:00:27] we're here to empower you to take control of your financial future and unlock the power of your self-directed retirement accounts. Let's get started. Welcome back to another episode of the Investors Row Podcast. And today I want to talk about something that I think is one of the most powerful tools, but also I feel is one of the most underutilized ways that people when they're looking to diversify one's portfolio, and they're not really taking the time is tax planning. Okay.

[00:00:57] And honestly, a lot of people focus more so on the compliance side of it in the alternative space. And as right, you should, right? I always tell people because IRA Club cannot choose the investment for you, very important to do your compliance, your due diligence, your background checks.

[00:01:13] But the problem is people forget about the tax planning portion of that. And now I understand when utilizing retirement accounts, you're already getting the tax savings of, you know, tax-deferred growth, which obviously grows your ROI. But this is also, we're talking about your personal funds, right? At the same time. So there is an individual that I brought on board who I highly, highly respect. And, you know, after seven, eight years now, I consider him a friend.

[00:01:40] And I heard him speak a very long time ago on this strategy that my jaw dropped. And I actually had to go to the president of IRA Club, Dennis Blitz, and said, is this even possible? Can you even do something like this? So my personal opinion, where other CPAs are kind of playing checkers, this guy's playing chess. I'm dead serious. And I'm really excited to have him come on board and talk about it.

[00:02:05] But joining me today is Mr. Charlie Dumback. And he is a licensed CPA, has an MBA, and is literally internationally recognized for these different types of tax strategies that he offers, right, for the past 30 years, to family offices, to business owners, to the actual individuals or high net worth individuals in particular. But it's just really fascinating on what he does, how he does it, in particular, the retirement space.

[00:02:34] I'm not going to steal any of his thunder whatsoever, because I do want him to talk a little bit about this waterfall strategy. And before I even jump in to say without further ado, he is also a longtime partner of the IRA Club with Axiom Wealth. He is the founder and CEO, and he's kind of put together these tax strategies for these individuals, in particular, IRA Club members.

[00:03:00] We probably have, I would say, Charlie, correct me if I'm wrong, a few hundred IRA Club members that work with you personally, one-on-one. And I can't even begin to tell you the amount of praise, right, that they give me and IRA Club for even just making that introduction to you. Kind of speaks kudos to who you are and your company and your organization. But, Charlie, welcome. This is the first time that you're on my podcast.

[00:03:30] Tell us a little bit about yourself, your story, your journey, from where you are when I even first met you about seven, eight years ago, to where you are now. Right? And I'm super excited to have you. I mean, it's been a while. It's been a minute. So, Charlie, again, welcome. Great to be here, Ramez. Thank you so much for having me today. And, yes, we have several hundred clients at the IRA Club. We value the partnership.

[00:03:56] We continue to bring new clients in for the investments that you sponsor, as well as the wonderful support services. We just had a great relationship with you. My background, of course, is in accounting. I've been a practicing CPA for nearly 30 years. I started in the late 80s at Ernst & Young. Spent about a decade there. And then really made some observations about how oftentimes people get underserved by their team of financial professionals. And in particular, their CPAs.

[00:04:26] And the observation I made several decades ago was that CPAs can be very good historians. Many times we gather your information after the close of the calendar year. We tell you how much money you made, how much you owe, when and where to file your taxes, and oftentimes how to write some pretty large checks at the last minute, maybe when you least expect it.

[00:04:48] So I formed my firm really for the sole purpose of helping clients recover dollars they unnecessarily pay in the form of state and federal income taxes. And over several decades, built a boutique CPA firm with a national footprint, simply doing what others don't.

[00:05:05] Look, our tax season runs typically from October to maybe mid to end of January, where we can make strategic decisions before the close of the calendar year that actually impacts the bottom line that you're paying. And if you think about tax planning, when does it become very important? It's all about the incremental rate of taxation that you're paying. We try, on average, to keep our clients' incremental rate of taxation no higher than 24%.

[00:05:33] What happens after 24% is it goes to 32%, the 35%, and 37%. And if you're in a high-tax state like California, where you're paying 12.3%, possibly on top, you're losing 50% of every dollar you earn. Getting killed. Getting crushed. And so you can do things before the end of the calendar year that actually lower the largest outflow of cash in your financial life.

[00:06:00] And so we built a very successful practice over several decades. And what I have then made the observation is about 20 years into my career is that there was really only two things for successful Americans that mattered in terms of how much and how fast you grow your wealth. And those two factors were how much you paid in income taxes and how well your investments performed.

[00:06:24] And look, for the better part of 20-some years, I've always been helping people shelter income from taxation and create lifetime annuities that allowed them to then reinvest into something that generated solid returns. But on the investing side, after counting people's wealth for 20 years, I realized that so many individuals put all of their investment capital in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and ETFs.

[00:06:52] And at best, their gross returns over 20 to 30 years were 8% to 10%. And then you had tax slippage that reduced that rate by a couple percent. And then you had fees. And so most of my clients were only growing their portfolio between fixed income and equities at a net 6% to 8% rate.

[00:07:14] And even my most successful clients were struggling to have enough accumulated capital at retirement age to be able to replace their income from their job, their profession, or the business they own. So what we realized is that there was a small subset of investors in our client base that invested very differently.

[00:07:34] They responsibly reallocated a portion of their investment capital away from market-based investments into a couple of other asset classes to include alternatives and passive investment real estate and maybe some other things. And that component of their investment strategy typically generated outsized returns, higher yields compared to market-based investments.

[00:08:01] So what we began doing as a business, we pivoted our business model about a decade ago to become not just tax planners, but more of wealth architects with the sole purpose of helping our clients grow their wealth more rapidly by doing two things very well. Continuing to do the world-class tax planning that we've always done and helping clients find ways to re-diversify capital into these other asset classes.

[00:08:27] And in particular, retirement plan assets that were often locked up with an advisor in IRAs and 401ks, old employer-sponsored plans. And that became the genesis for the business model at Axiom Wealth today. Listen, stop. Okay, I'm just going to say thank you, Charlie. You're probably the only other person outside of me that's such a big advocate of alternative assets. And you're not even part of my industry. You just firmly believe in alternative assets.

[00:08:55] And keep in mind, to those that are listening, it's not that we, me and Charlie, have a problem with the stock market. We just kind of use it differently. And we allocate our money very differently than most. But at the end of the day, what I love about you, Charlie, is not only is it the alternative side that you're looking at. It's like that's just half of it. You are also highly focused on the other half, the other 50%, which is what you just talked about, right? Keeping everything 24% or lower.

[00:09:21] Remember, pretty much 40% to 50% of what you make if you're a high net worth individual. If you are not doing what Charlie's telling you to do, you are getting eaten alive by the system, right? That's one of the things that we preach here, Charlie, as you well know, is how do you get that, let me be polite, that SOB, Mr. Uncle Sam, out of your wallet, right? That is what you totally focus on. And you do some of this through alternative investments. So let me ask you a question, Charlie.

[00:09:51] And before I even get into the retirement space, because I know that's one of the things that you do focus on, especially our world, why haven't other CPAs caught on to what it is that you're doing? You hit the nail right on the head. There are so many CPAs that do call us every single day, especially during tax season. What is this? What is self-directed retirement account? Why is that? Can you just elaborate a little bit on that?

[00:10:16] Here's the problem that occurs in almost every CPA firm nationwide, is that you get busier and busier every year, taking on new clients, growing your business, and you're focused 100% on compliance-based activities. And I've spent years and years cranking out tax returns.

[00:10:40] And during the peak periods of the season where you have deadlines upcoming, you can spend 12 to 14 hours a day at the computer just cranking out tax returns. So what happens is CPAs are looking to maximize their income. And the easiest way to do that is to create more billable hours. And billable hours are based upon preparing tax returns because those are your highest margin activities in a CPA firm.

[00:11:04] So what happens is CPAs get very busy simply taking care of the debits and credits, and they find themselves with no time to do any of the tax planning. And then for a CPA, the low point that's focused on compliance is that October to December timeframe when you have the holidays. So it's the only break in the deadline space where a CPA gets time off. We said we want to be different.

[00:11:31] Our tax season is going to run in that last quarter of the calendar year. And we're going to create a compliance team that is separately organized from our tax planning team. And look, the tax preparation function now in a CPA firm is a commodity. It's done in a highly technological environment where technology tools make it very efficient. And oftentimes it's now farmed out overseas.

[00:11:59] And so it's all about getting the compliance work done at a cost point that is reasonable and getting things done within the deadlines. But trying to find a relationship where someone is going to actually help you strategically lower that tax cost in your financial life. And it's simply because CPAs just get too busy. They just get too busy. And I love what you said. You actually started on the last quarter of the year.

[00:12:24] So that's your advantage is you're already ahead of the game where everybody else, to your point, it's more so a volume play, right? The more business you bring in, obviously the more money you make, depending if you're working for a corporation or company, right? You've got to hit these numbers. And we get that. In your case, so let me ask you a personal question. You're not about the numbers game, right? You're not about volume, right? You're more so, explain kind of your strategy.

[00:12:51] Are you more so focused on the high net worth individuals, right, that want to do these different types of strategies? Are you encouraged them? Our client base is what I call the mass affluent. It's typically people that are worth between $3 and $20 million. And the problem with financial advice in that category of wealth is you typically can't afford to have a family office level support team.

[00:13:16] You have individual service providers, a CPA, one or two attorneys, a financial advisor that manages your capital, a life insurance agent, and maybe an estate planner. So you have to take advice and guidance from an uncoordinated team. Oftentimes there are self-interests at play when it comes to selling insurance, annuities, and things like that. So the advice you get is oftentimes suitable for your situation, but it's not in your absolute best interest.

[00:13:46] So what we like to do is integrate the best practices in the fields of law, accounting, and financial planning to give you unbiased, independent advice that's in your absolute best interest. We don't sell anything. But we simply advise on what we believe is the best fit for you. And we get great results. So in many respects, what we do is a dial-down family office service where we give you that integrated approach to growing your wealth more rapidly.

[00:14:14] And, you know, one of the things that I loved, again, about you during one of the – I remember me and you, we were at an event together. This was about five, six years ago. And I don't want to say words such as guaranteed or anything of that nature. What you said was if you're just unhappy and you're just – to your point, you're making three, four, five million dollars or north of that, just provide me your last year's tax, you know, your tax documents. Let me take a look at them, right? Let me take a look at what you have or what's available.

[00:14:43] And if I could save you money, let's have a conversation, right? And am I saying that right because I don't want to – You've got the nail on the head. So there's two things that we do when you first come on board as a client. And what we do is complimentary for anyone that comes within our purview. As we call it, a wealth snapshot or a wealth x-ray.

[00:15:08] And it's really focused on the 80% that matters in your financial life, driving down the cost of taxation and improving investment performance. So one is I get the copies of your prior year business and individual income tax returns. I scour those returns. And I get some information about what's happening in the current year. And then I can get on a support phone call very quickly. And within 15 minutes, I can go through A to Z what I would do differently than what you're doing today.

[00:15:36] And I can actually quantify to the dollar of what we believe that we can save you. And on average, for a successful entrepreneur, business owner, professional, I'm able to carve out 30% in savings. And those savings typically occur year in and year out. And that's just the average of what we've achieved for our clients over several decades of work. So that's the first component of the wealth x-ray.

[00:16:00] The second component is finding out exactly how well you're performing in your investments. And if you look at your broker statements that come from, say, Merrill Lynch or UBS or many of the larger financial institutions. Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab. It's often hard to determine exactly what your overall rate of return is.

[00:16:20] So I have a technology tool that allows me to scrape all the information off of your investment statements and create the report card on a year-to-date, one-year, three-year, and five-year basis to show exactly how well you're performing against the index. The benchmark for the class of investments that you're invested in. So we get a report card that says, okay, am I meeting or beating the index? Most don't. I'd say 95% of my clients don't meet or beat the index.

[00:16:48] And then we heat map the report so we can show what's performing below the index, what's performing very far below the index, what's at or near the index, and what's performing far above the index. And, of course, things color-coded in amber and red are at or below the index, and oftentimes these reports are littered with amber and red colors. And the green shows things that are performing well.

[00:17:14] And look, I've done this thousands and thousands of times, and what I find is ways to improve performance by getting rid of the amber and the red things that have historically performed very poorly. Charlie, are you holding on to me? What software do you have that I'm not aware of that you never even spoke to me in the past about? What is it? It's actually not a software program. I have a financial analyst.

[00:17:40] His name is Manford Jeske that has a chemical engineering background, and he developed a tool that allows us to take a broker statement, load it in to AI, and create the report card on a one, three, and five-year basis. I'm happy to share with you what that looks like, but it's an invaluable tool for you to assess exactly where you are today.

[00:18:01] And what we then do is say, okay, based upon what we see here, these are the things that we might want to consider for reallocation into alternatives and passive investment real estate, these other asset classes. And that's why we start to work with our clients. I do want to pick your brain about it. I'm that serious. There's a lot of our clients that always are asking, am I underperforming? What am I supposed to be looking at?

[00:18:26] So again, would love when the time is right, and you're always educating our group of clients, our investors, IRA club members as a whole. But I think we just talked about this vaguely. A lot of recent tax laws have been coming up, the woodwork, Secure Deck 2.0, Trump's new policies, all that. Can you elaborate on some of those for business owners or maybe individuals? What are some of those new changes that you've been hearing about?

[00:18:54] So the biggest thing that happened when Trump was reelected is he brought back 100% bonus depreciation. A bonus depreciation. Okay, so people get 100% write-off for major equipment purchases. That's very significant. It also impacted with that legislation some of the legislation that the Biden administration had implemented back in 2022 with the Inflation Reduction Act.

[00:19:18] And this is one of the things that we should talk about very specifically is what sort of techniques do you have that we can use to mitigate income tax when you're in that 32, 35, and 37% bracket? And one of the things that the Biden administration did was say, look, we're going to implement tax incentives for investments in green energy technology so that we can ultimately replace fossil fuel-based systems. Well, of course, that's not going to work.

[00:19:43] But historically, when you put money in an oil and gas or a fossil fuel-based investment, you got 100% write-off. Biden administration said, we're going to make that much, much better from a tax perspective if you put money into green energy technology.

[00:19:56] So they implemented a body of legislation called the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, where for a green energy technology investment, you get not only the bonus depreciation, the 100% write-off, which was phasing out under the Biden administration, but you also get a 30% to 50% investment tax credit, which is a direct dollar-for-dollar offset to your income tax return. So bonus depreciation was phasing out.

[00:20:25] So we have, on a limited basis, the ability to invest in green energy technology today to get a 100% write-off off your income tax return and get up to a 50% dollar-for-dollar credit on your income tax return.

[00:20:43] So for clients that are in those 30% rate bracket categories, we're typically able to recover 120% to 150% of your income tax liability in the first year by these capital placements. That's great news. It even benefits individuals that are high W-2 earners with material participation, which you can qualify for within 100 hours of work. Very easy to do.

[00:21:09] So we've got some – and the thing about this particular legislation is the Trump administration is kind of cutting this out in the next year. But there's a way to grandfather yourself in for the next four or five years. So that is some unique legislation carried over from the Biden administration, got a little bit better from the Trump administration with 100% bonus depreciation, and now phasing out. But we have the opportunity to take advantage of that.

[00:21:33] So I would say, look, I've got a wonderful solar investment provider that can really dial down on whether that strategy can benefit you. It is my number one strategy right now for high-income earners, either a professional on a W-2 income, a business owner, or an entrepreneur. So that's wrong. I'm sorry.

[00:21:55] Since we're on that subject of the way – because I'm a huge advocate, and just like you, actually, you're more of a bigger advocate of the Roth, right? And the SecureDAC 2.0 says we're talking about tax strategies, and the way that you structure this within a retirement account.

[00:22:14] I know you know where I'm about to go with this, and this is something that – I was wondering if you came up with this or if you learned this from somebody else, which is that waterfall method, right? So I was introduced over 20 years ago to a strategy that allows individuals to create a massive waterfall into your Roth IRA on high-performing investments. Talk to me about this.

[00:22:41] And if you think about it from a tax planning perspective, one of the things that we like to do is to maximize the growth of tax-free wealth. Number one way to do that is to accelerate the way you grow your Roth IRA, either a Roth IRA or a 401k Roth account.

[00:23:01] And on high-performing investments, we're able to couple money with your traditional retirement plan and a Roth account into a unique LLC structure that when your rate of return exceeds 4% to 5% per annum, every dollar of earnings above that fixed nominal rate of return between 4% and 6% flows tax-free into your Roth IRA.

[00:23:30] So let's say you have a million dollars of capital, $900,000 in a traditional account, $100,000 in a Roth account. I want to get as much more money as I possibly can into that small Roth account. Of course. Those two accounts come together in a limited liability company. And on the million dollars, the way the operating agreement is written, the traditional retirement plan gets a fixed rate of return that's considered risk-free.

[00:24:00] That risk-free rate of return is tied to an interest rate index. It's called the midterm AFR. It's about 4.5% per annum. So the excess rate of return above that nominal fixed risk-free rate flows tax-free to the Roth. So let's say in this Roth acceleration strategy, the million dollars earns 18% per annum. So it earns $180,000. Okay.

[00:24:28] So the first $45,000 of earnings goes back to my traditional retirement plan account. So that goes from $900,000 to $945,000. The excess rate of return, $180,000 less than $45,000, flows tax-free into my Roth account. So in year one, my Roth account that starts at $100,000 nearly doubles.

[00:24:56] So let me ask you a question, Charlie, because I already know where people's brains are like, wait, wait, what? And as they're listening to you, all right? I know where somebody like, let's say, for example, the IRCub. I know you've been doing this for over a decade, right? My question is they're going to think who's paying the taxes and how do you respond back to that from the traditional to the Roth? So this is an earnings allocation to the Roth. This is not a conversion.

[00:25:21] So earnings that happen in a retirement plan, in an IRA account, it's tax-deferred. In a Roth account, it's tax-free. So in this LLC, which has a mixture of traditional and Roth accounts, the earnings are either going to be tax-deferred or tax-exempt.

[00:25:42] So all we're doing is limiting the growth of the tax-deferred account and maximizing the growth of the tax-free account by allocating earnings in a way on high-performing investments that benefits the tax-free portion of that structure. So there's no tax on a conversion because we're not converting. We're allocating earnings in an efficient way.

[00:26:06] And why this works from a compliance perspective is if the investment doesn't perform well, the Roth IRA never grows. If the investment fails, the Roth account goes to zero. So that's how this works.

[00:26:22] And, you know, you know the one what we call core holding in our clients' portfolios that we sponsor on your investment row has generated a massive waterfall over the last six years into clients' Roth accounts that use this structure.

[00:26:41] Because we've been able to generate between 18% and 20% per annum in this specific structure on an annualized basis and have massively grown our clients' tax-free wealth using this strategy. And the benefit is, like, when you get to that point in life where you want to start to draw out money from your retirement plans, our goal in the later portion of our life after we've lost the active income is to manage the rate brackets.

[00:27:11] Where, again, we're not going to be exposed to more than 24%. So we draw out money from our qualified investments, which are non-qualified investments, which are taxed. We then start taking money strategically out of our tax-deferred investments, maybe up to that 24% cap. And then everything above that that we need to cash flow our lifestyle comes tax-free out of our Roth. Roth, yeah.

[00:27:34] And that's advanced tax planning after you get to the point in time where you're no longer working in your W-2 job or you've sold your business, but we don't want to continue to pay tax in those 35% categories. So this strategic process of growing the wealth maximizes our ability to create additional cash flow in your life by keeping your incremental rate of taxation throughout the rest of your life to no more than 24%.

[00:28:01] And I'm being clear to everybody that is listening, there are hundreds of IRA Club clients that use this strategy with Charlie and his team. So, and I'm probably, because I've had a few IRA Club members come up to me and be like, how many times have you ever been audited? Because that question has come up to me where have you had any issues with somebody or somebody from the IRS coming back and saying, you can or cannot do this? We have never, ever had an issue with the IRS from a compliance perspective.

[00:28:31] When we started systematically using this technique, we had a tax opinion letter from one of the largest tax law firms in the country audit the use of the allocation formula that we used to create the waterfall and they blast it. And I already know where people's heads are going again. They're thinking, how come my CPA hasn't come up with something like this? It's because, Charlie, what's the reasoning behind it?

[00:29:00] The reason is I've spent 20 years of my life tax planning for clients rather than sitting at the desk cranking out tax returns with midnight oil at all hours of the day and focused on ways that can help my clients limit the exposure they have to income taxation. So you talked about alternative assets a lot, and that's something we highly preach about.

[00:29:26] So if that is one of your biggest focuses, right, half is tax planning, the other half is alternative assets, what are some investment opportunities that are out there? You did mention wind turbines. What else do you specialize in? What else are you looking into? It's interesting. When we began pivoting our business model after we had counted people's wealth for two decades and realized that the investment component was a critical part to the equation of growing your wealth more rapidly,

[00:29:52] we began looking for ways to sponsor investments in the alternative and real estate spaces that could generate outsized rates of return at modest levels of risk. And I got a phone call, oddly, from a client of mine that was a commercial real estate developer, and I had done his income tax planning work for the better part of 20 years. He was actually from Canada.

[00:30:17] And he said to me, I've got a family member that's been trained for seven years by the individuals that run the Forex desk at Goldman Sachs. He's been trading friends and family accounts, grew his wealth from this pool of capital from $800,000 to $3.8 million over 18 months. And I said, I know nothing about Forex FX trading. Sounds too good to be true. Probably not stable, predictable, probably very volatile.

[00:30:43] But I had the opportunity to fly to Chicago to meet my client that I've had for 20 years, and he brought the trader along with him, who was his cousin. And I got the 18 months worth of trading reports, flew back to Dallas. And about that time, I was doing tax planning work for an individual named Surajit Carr. And Surajit was a Fortune 50 consultant for most of his life. You know Surajit. Yeah, of course I do. That's why I'm smiling, yeah.

[00:31:08] Yeah, and so he was retiring early from PWC at age 47, and I was simply doing this tax planning work. But Surajit had a PhD in aerospace engineering. And I gave him the 18 months worth of trading reports, and I said, can you put your rocket science mind to these reports and tell me every reason why we shouldn't get involved? This is about seven years ago. And he looked back to me after six weeks and says what I found was stable, predictable, and had a very narrow standard deviation.

[00:31:35] And he goes, I think you and I should put some capital with the trader under very specific parameters and have him trade for us and prove the business model. So we each put $200,000 with the trader. He traded our capital for 18 months. And the 18-month period of time that he traded our capital, our gross annualized returns were right at 39% per annum. Wow. And we did not have one week in the 18 months where we got a net loss.

[00:32:02] So at that point in time, we felt comfortable making this strategy available to our clients. So we formed our first regulation defund six years ago. And since that time, our capital stack has grown to about $220 million. And there are about four statistics that define the return profile for this strategy. In the six years of trading history, about 77% of our trades win, 23% lose.

[00:32:31] The size of our winning trades are 6.4 times the size of our losing trades. We trade no more than 15% of the capital in any given point in time. And get this, in the six-year history of our trading strategies, we've only had one week with a net loss. And the way the funds are structured, they're structured in a way that's very different from a typical hedge fund where there's an 80-20 split and there's fees. There's no fees. There's no commissions.

[00:33:01] No broker-dealer charges. Clients who invest receive a fixed preferred rate of return. That rate of return ranges between 18.5% and 19.99% per annum, okay, depending upon whether you're using retirement plan money or non-retirement plan money. And we as sponsors only get remunerated when the overall rate of return in the fund is higher than what we pay you. And so think about that.

[00:33:30] Your client started investing six years ago with us in this strategy through the IRA club. Many of those now are on their second doubling of money. And if you think about the waterfall strategy of that 18% to 20% rate of return, I'm getting 14% to 16% of your overall rate of return dropping tax-free into a Roth IRA. So I've done two things very well.

[00:33:59] Created over six years, a second doubling of clients' capital. Created a massive waterfall into clients' Roth accounts and allowed clients typically that are thinking about, do I have enough capital to walk out of the workforce? To potentially say, I'm done now rather than four or five years from now. And that's our 12X platform. It's performed exceptionally well. I think it's an all-weather investment strategy.

[00:34:24] And in our clients' portfolios is a core holding. And because we're talking about numbers, I just want to make it clear. We always say past performance, right? Doesn't look like future. So just to be clear, because I can never talk about alternative investments, I'm here to educate about alternative investments. That's what also Charlie is here to do, right?

[00:34:47] Is to educate you not only on tax savings and the strategies, these far advanced strategies that I'm telling you I've never heard of in the last decade, except when I'm sitting down talking to Charlie. Such a treat to have him on board, you know, talking about this. But it is very important to understand, right? When talking to Charlie, I know exactly what's going to happen right now. As you're educating, people are going to want to learn more about this waterfall method.

[00:35:16] They want to learn more about your advanced thread. They want to learn more about your investment opportunities. And if somebody just wanted to learn more about you, your company, Axiom Wealth, where can they reach you? Who should they be talking to? Is it okay for me to give a shout out to Evan Russo? Absolutely, yes. So it's Evan Russo. He's been with me for the last four years.

[00:35:40] And really, you can go to our website, which is www.axiomwealth.com, and you can book a consultation call right there. You can get a phone number that rings on Evan's desk. And we'd love to learn a little bit more about every one of the clients here that listen to what we have to say. I truly believe that we can add value into everyone's financial life in terms of helping people grow their wealth more rapidly.

[00:36:06] And just for those that – obviously, this is the Investor's Row podcast. But if you just want a little bit more information, and I know, Charlie, you obviously put the – and we'll make sure to put your website on the bottom. But if you just want to learn more about the company, directly reach out to Evan Russo. His calendar link is on the Investor's Row website, on IRA Club's website, better yet. So feel free to click there. And you could obviously connect directly, learn more about the investment opportunity, do a little bit of due diligence.

[00:36:36] You guys know I'm very big on due diligence. But Charlie has been a longtime partner of the IRA Club. Like I said, I've known him for almost a decade. This is no endorsement. I can't endorse Charlie. He obviously knows that because by law I can't do that. But this is more so about networking, talking to each other, communicating, seeing what you're available to. Especially if you're a high net worth individual, why not have that conversation with Evan or Charlie?

[00:37:04] Charlie, I always like giving final thoughts to my co-host. If there is something that you would like people to know, and I know we are always talking about retirement accounts and this waterfall strategy. I'm telling you, everybody that is listening to this, I've never seen any other CPA do it. I haven't. I'm just being frank with you. If they want to closing out thoughts, what would you say to people that are listening that, again, you want them to know outside of just what we just discussed?

[00:37:31] Look, I really think the whole message here is how do we help you grow your wealth more rapidly than doing what the average individual does, which is harking your money with a financial advisor and letting it sit for years and years and not getting active, proactive management and not looking for ways in off-market investment opportunities where you have the ability and potential to earn outsized returns and yields compared to market-based investments.

[00:38:00] And then really analyzing with your relationship with your accountant. How many times during the course of the year did he reach out to offer you tax planning advice and guidance? Do you have a year-end tax planning call where you're getting advice and guidance on how to lower the cost of taxation? If you're not getting that type of proactive advice, you're leaving money on the table.

[00:38:23] And at the end of the day, 80% of your ability to grow your wealth more rapidly is really dependent upon those two factors, how much you pay in taxes and how well your investments perform. At Axiom Wealth, we are 100% dialed in on moving that needle more rapidly by focusing on those two critical areas in your financial life. Charlie, an absolute treat to have you. I can't wait to have you back on board and just talk anything with you, right? I always have a great time with you.

[00:38:53] For, again, those of you just wanting to connect, learn, talk to each other, I'll make sure that his contact information, click on the link below. If you want to join us for the next one and learn something new and something that's always related towards your retirement account, feel free to go to IRA Club forward slash podcast and join us for the next one. Charlie, I am, again, thank you for the time and look forward to actually having you sometime in the near future, right?

[00:39:22] I know you don't travel as much anymore, buddy, so it's rare that I get to get you. But we got a couple of webinars popping up, and I can't wait to have you. Yeah, I look forward to the next steps as well. Thank you so much for us. Absolutely. Take care, Charlie.